BW 203 Sh3 Victoria
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Speaker 3: If music has been part of your healing journey or you're interested in how music can affect the healing journey through grief, this episode is for you. Welcome to episode 203 of The Brave Widow Show. Hey, guys. I'm so excited to share with you this very special episode with a new friend, Victoria. Before we dive in, let me introduce you to her just quickly. Victoria is creatively known as She.
She is a music therapist and grief counselor working in hospice care. She's a PhD student researching the role of music creation in bereavement and how personalized music experience can support grief processing. Alongside her clinical and academic work, Victoria's a professional songwriter, producer, and audio engineer, using music as both a therapeutic and creative practice
this past November, Victoria released The Blue Album, a collection of songs exploring her personal journey [00:01:00] with grief. I have listened to the album. The music is beautiful. Her voice is beautiful. We'll put the links in the show notes so let's dive in
Emily: Victoria, thank you so much for being willing to come and share your story today.
Victoria: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.
Emily: Awesome. So I know our audience would love to know just more about you and your story, and I'm not gonna spill the beans, but you're doing some pretty amazing things out there, so I know they'd love to hear about that too.
Victoria: Thank you. Yeah, no. I had lost my partner, in November of 2024 suddenly, and, I, as I'm sure your audience can understand how, devastating of, a event that is. And I turned to music to try to help to cope with what I was navigating through. In addition to the, the music that I, that I create, I, I am, like, a singer-songwriter, producer, that sort of thing, but I'm also a [00:02:00] music therapist and a grief counselor.
So you, you might... or one might think that having that background might equip me for grief but I can assure you that it does not. Um, I think it's one thing to be educated in the space and to you know, learn how to support people navigating that journey. Um, but when you are put into that space it's, it doesn't necessarily make it any easier.
So I had to really start from the ground up and, and navigate that pain. And I'm grateful that I had music to, to help me or that I have music to help me. And the Blue Album was a product of that pain.
Emily: Mm. I love that, and I think it's a really great point for people to not look at their past experiences as a way to shame themselves.
Like, "Oh, I should know how to handle this. I should be able to do this," because- Yeah ... grief [00:03:00] really needs to be shared in community or with other- Mm ... people, and we can just be so isolating in withdrawing- Yeah ... when we're experiencing that. What did you feel like was helpful for you? I know music was a big thing for you.
Mm-hmm. But what was maybe another thing or two that- Yeah ... you thought really helped you?
Victoria: Yeah, I think you bring up such a fantastic point about community. Um, I think maybe that was something, being in the grief world, that I, I did have knowledge in, in that I knew how powerful community would be navigating this.
Within weeks I had my own grief counselor. Within weeks I was in my own support groups. Um- And to be honest, I learned so, so, so, so, so much, uh, being in, in those settings. So much so that it directly impacted how I offered services as a grief counselor. Mm-hmm. Um, so I, I was able to access a specific partner loss group.[00:04:00]
Um, and it was a virtual style, uh, drop-in group, so there, there wasn't like... It wasn't closed in that we had to commit to like a certain number of sessions. Um, and I found that to be tremendously helpful. And when I I think I probably attended maybe about six to eight months worth of, of those sessions.
And when I returned back to work, because I, I did take a leave. There was no way that I could navigate my own pain while supporting others. Um, when I came back, I had shared that experience, and I had proposed creating a similar style group at, uh... Oh, I didn't, I don't think I mentioned that I work in hospice, so in that grief counseling, uh, capacity and music therapy.
Um, so when I did return back to work I proposed starting a virtual group, and now I facilitate a virtual grief support group. Um, it's a mixed loss group, and we get such beautiful people attending. And I get to bear witness to the support firsthand, and I myself firsthand as a service user know the importance of community.
So I, I will [00:05:00] say community is so, so important. It's so important.
Emily: Yeah. And I think it's remarkable and just mind-boggling how you can stay working in hospice and working so closely with those who are in such deep, acute grief. And is there anything that has helped you with that, or did you find it hard when you went back to-
Victoria: Yeah
Emily: be around people who were experiencing that?
Victoria: To be honest, my faith really is like a cornerstone for me, and I think if I didn't have my faith, I don't think that I could even be working in hospice period. I think it allows me to experience those sacred moments as very, very special to be supportive in moments of transition.
I don't think that if I didn't believe in something beyond this physical world I don't think that I would be able to support in that way and feel comfortable being at bedside in that [00:06:00] way. So for, for me, honestly, transitioning back to music therapy and hospice was not challenging just because of the meaning that I receive from it, and if anything, I feel like it, it fuels me and continues to give meaning to what I do day to day.
Um, the grief counseling piece was a little bit more of a challenge just because I can self-identify very much with what clients present. So that was definitely... There, there was like a reintegration that I needed to really slowly be steady with myself to feel comfortable. But eventually, I, I...
Like, at this point, I, I really feel like it has allowed me to be way more candid talking about loss. I, I don't feel as scared that I'm gonna say the wrong thing or that I'm gonna, you know, offend. I feel like because I have, or I am walking this walk it, it just makes me feel More relatable with the people that I work with.
So i- i- in a way, it, it has helped me, [00:07:00] I feel, be a, a better therapist, to be quite honest. Mm-hmm.
Emily: I will say, I do hear from a lot of my clients that they really resonate well with a therapist who's walked through their own grief journey. Even though they may not talk about it, there's just something in the way people interact- I know
where you just know. Um-
Victoria: It's an energy thing. I don't know. You just... Yeah, you feel a little bit calmer.
Emily: Yeah.
Victoria: At least from, yeah, from, from my perspective, yeah.
Emily: Yes. So tell us about The Blue Album, and I'm... I have so many questions. I'm curious if it felt really vulnerable to share some- Yeah ... of the things there, but I'd love to hear about that.
Victoria: Yeah, so as, as a songwriter and then a music therapist, I, I felt like I definitely knew that at some point I probably would express myself in song. Like, it was just... Before I even knew what music therapy was, songwriting has always been something that has helped me navigate challenging things.
Um, it's been really helpful just for, like, my mental health to be [00:08:00] able to express myself in music. Um, but I, I did not anticipate feeling like I could write something so close- closely to when he, he passed. Um, so he, he had passed in November of 2024 and then I started writing the first song in December so, uh, like, a, a month-ish later, around his birthday.
Um, and it was very, like, innocent in the way that it came to be. I was taking a shower. As we, as we shower, and we sing in the shower, and, uh, I had a melody come to mind, uh, and words started to fit with, with the melody. And I thought to myself, I was like, "I really, really like these lyrics that are that are coming to mind."
It, it was the tagline of, "Why does everything have to make sense when you're gone?" Mm. Um, which is, like, a really... Oh, I might get emotional. Which is a really, really sad head space to be in, to have that realization 'cause some- you know, sometimes loss really does make you realize things. And [00:09:00] yeah, I, I, I had that melodic idea and that lyrical idea- come to mind and I kept repeating it and I was like, "Once you step out of the shower, you're gonna record a voice note.
You're gonna record a voice note." And I recorded a voice note, and I just felt inspired to grab my guitar and just actually turn this into a full song. And I wrote about the first half, which is, is kind of my creative process. I tend to like to, to start with, like, a verse and a chorus and just kind of let it breathe for a little bit.
And when I did that, I just... I thought to myself, I'm like, "You are processing the pain of this loss right now. You are using music to process the pain of this loss." And then my next thought, because the grief counseling brain kicks in, is processing the pain of the loss, that is task two in Worden's tasks of mourning.
Um, so when I made that connection the next thought after that was, what if you were to make an album where each song represents a task of mourning? Because I'm so familiar with the tasks of mourning that [00:10:00] I thought how beautiful would it be to document this journey, honor this journey, honor this individual by writing an album dedicated to him.
And he was also in the music world, so I, I can just, you know, I, I, it's that continuing bonds. I'm feeling his energy and I'm thinking and knowing how proud that he would be that this album exists. But so that was the inception of the album. Um, and then from there I just started writing with the, the, the mindset that each song is gonna represent a task of mourning.
So the, uh, the first, or now it's track two, so t- track one is called The Loss, and that is a very ki- kind of avant-garde chaotic sound of, of the song. 'Cause it's kind of more of like a sonic landscape. There's no lyrics. Um, but it's, it's really to represent the moment of getting the phone call of what happened.
So The Loss is really just to kinda set the stage of like the [00:11:00] devastation of, of what had happened. Um, and then the second song is, um, Love Again. That represents the accepting the reality of the loss. When You're Gone, processing the pain of the loss. Then we have, uh, the third task which is, is adjusting to a new world.
That's represented by Piece of Me. Um, and the concept for Piece of Me was in the same way that I have to adjust to my new world without him, I'm imagining that his energy has to also adjust to the new world that his energy is in. So the, the lyrics are very like, "Can, can you feel all the pretty colors in your land?"
Like I'm imagining, you know, the, the whatever landscapes that his energy must be floating through and can you feel the love of many mothers like they said? Like the idea that when you're re- reuniting with the Creator that it's just an abundance of love, and just that imagery of, you know, his energy is, is adjusting to his new space while I am also [00:12:00] here still in this physical world- That's beautiful
adjusting to my new space. So yeah, so every, every song goes on and, and represents a task and it was so, so cathartic to be, to write this record. The vulnerability piece didn't much cross through my head because I, I just felt like I It was just so special. It was just so special of a way to honor him, again, because he is part of the, the music world, um, that it just, it, it gave me meaning, especially in this first year.
It gave me meaning of something to work towards.
Emily: Mm. That is just so beautiful and such a beautiful way of giving back and, and being a gift to other people. And you guys, you have to go listen to this album because Victoria has such a m- melodic voice, and I don't... Like, what would you say is the official style of your album or genre?
Victoria: That's a great question- ... 'cause I feel like I've always struggled to, to put that in a very easy [00:13:00] box. But I don't know. It's, it's, it's definitely, like, pop. I would say it's, like, pop music, but there's elements of, of folk. There's elements of, like, ambient. Like, I have lots of harmonies going around and stuff, and it's easy listening, smooth listening.
Um, it's, it's, it's really hard for me to, like, say, "Oh, this is pop," or, "This is R&B." It's ec- it's like a, an eclectic taste of all the music that I've ever listened to growing up, you know?
Emily: I know you have some acoustic things- Mm-hmm ... it seems like in there, and, like, this is just very chill, relaxing- Yes
music. Like, it does bring up emotions. Mm. But also it's something that I love just having that, that vibe, whatever it is. However we can capture it.
Victoria: Yes.
Emily: Um, it's just very almost relaxing, but soulful. Mm. And, you know, the way that you use your voice is just very different, and I love that 'cause I think about how can you hear an artist and- Mm
you could [00:14:00] recognize their voice. You could recognize- Mm ... you know, their style, and I think you're one of those people, so you've done an amazing job with your-
Victoria: Thank you. That, that means so much. Honestly, that means a lot.
Emily: Yeah. So my favorite song on there, can I read just, like, a few of the lyrics from there?
Victoria: Oh, please.
Emily: Okay. Please. Okay. So one of my favorite songs on there is Love Doesn't Die.
And the part that really caught my attention that I think will resonate with people is we tend to have this fear that moving forward means we're moving away from our person. We're leaving them behind. That part of our story is over.
We are moving to an, a next chapter, a new chapter. And so some of the lyrics that stood out to me says, " 'Cause our story, it doesn't have to die. It can fly." Now I'm gonna cry. Mm. "It can soar all through life. But maybe it's not about saying goodbye. It's a love that continues, the love that doesn't die."
That's so beautiful.
Victoria: [00:15:00] Yeah.
Emily: So yeah, now we're both crying. Oh, man. But that is your music. And that is, I think, so powerful for people to hear that you are adjusting to a new life, but you are still weaving in the spirit and the essence of the person that you loved, and that's amazing.
Victoria: Thank you. Thank you for, yeah, for, um, finding like a, a blurb of lyrics that, um, I...
It's, it's so beautiful to hear it actually read back to me, because that's not something that I, Yeah, I, I listen to the music, but to have somebody actually read out the lyrics. That song was written directly after a grief counseling session. And we were talking about closure. Um, and for, for some, like myself,
it's not part of the equation. You don't have the chance to say goodbye. So, hmm, as I was writing [00:16:00] that song, it was in real time where I made that transition of maybe it's not about saying goodbye, it's the love that continues. The love doesn't die. And that was really helpful for me because it really helped me truly internalize that I am able to still have a spiritual connection to him.
And I, I truly, truly believe that just the creation of this music and the ideas that were popping into my head like one after another, I really, really have to believe that he is still a part of this. Even though he's not in the physical, in the physical way that of course we all want from our people that we lose it's just such a beautiful symbol for me of our story doesn't have to die.
I, I can still continue to honor him. I can still continue to be influenced by him just because of the impact that he made on my life, and he lives through [00:17:00] those things.
So that song is very, very meaningful to me just because of the, like the, the in the moment realization that I had writing it of like but maybe it's not about saying goodbye.
When, even if we do have the opportunity to say goodbye, whoever truly feels that it's enough? Like, I don't think it ever feels like it's enough.
Emily: No.
Victoria: So it's the love that continues. The love doesn't die.
Emily: Yeah. And I love just... I, I read it, I think it was in the Grief Recovery Method book. It just talked about how we continue to have an emotional relationship and experiences-
Victoria: Yes
Emily: with those memories of our person. Like, and I think how often do we go, "Oh, they would have loved this," or, "They would have hated that"- Oh, my gosh. Yep ... or, "This, I can just picture them doing this." And so it's like you're still creating those emotional experience with your person even though they're not physically right there next to you.
Victoria: So true. Yeah. Very well [00:18:00] said.
Emily: Yeah, so after this, guys, you just gotta go listen to the song. It's just... But no, it may bring up some emotions, so.
Victoria: That's true. There should be a warning label, yeah.
Emily: Yeah,
Victoria: yeah. May, may bring up some, some emotions, for sure.
Emily: Yeah, so, where, what, what else would you like to share about- Mm-hmm
just your music or maybe how you've been able to see it impact other people? Mm. Or what do they- Mm ... tend to say that they really enjoy about your, your music?
Victoria: Yeah, no, I, I think music is such a fantastic way for people to connect. I think if you have walked this walk and you understand firsthand what these feelings can feel like to have it be expressed in music, I have received such beautiful messages from people, um, that can connect to the lyrics in the same way that, that you shared with Love Doesn't Die.
I think something that, that I, I, I would love to highlight is the sense of hope that the album is meant to give, right? So [00:19:00] because it has, like, an arc of starting with the loss, and that song is just a very, very, like I said, chaotic soundscape, um, it gives me, honestly, anxiety now when I listen to it 'cause I'm like, it actually really stirs up those feelings of, of, uh, anxiety of get- getting that phone call.
Um, but then it leads to, uh, like I said, the transition through all the tasks. Um, but the final couple songs are choral pieces, the, the Eternal Rest prayer, um, and the, uh, the Great Amen chant. And leading up to that is the song Until We Meet Again. And for me, that's personally my, my favorite on, on the album because it's, it's saying that this isn't goodbye.
It's saying that- There will come a time where we will reunite, and I truly believe that. So again, it's that, that arc of hope. It starts off with the loss and that chaos of the loss, but then through the album it, it continues to until we meet again, and then it ends off with amen of I, I [00:20:00] believe. Amen translates to I believe, right?
So, um, yeah, I... That would probably be the, if, if I were to say something that I would hope people take from, from the record is, is the sense of hope that- Mm ... that there, that the physical world death is not permanent and that we will reunite with the people that we lost.
Emily: Oh, I love that so much. And I know someone had told me that often in grief we're sad because we feel like as we're moving forward and the days are passing, we're moving away from our person.
But if we believe that we're gonna see them again in the future, every day just brings us closer to the day we'll actually see them again.
Victoria: Yeah.
Emily: I'm like, "I never, I never looked at it that way. I never thought about that." Yeah. But that, the way that you created the album and the way that you worded that is just reiterating, like, we are gonna see them again and we can be sad and we can miss them now, but we can also have hope that we'll, we'll be reunited.[00:21:00]
Victoria: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The, the hope for, for being reunited, but also the hope that we are still connected, right? 'Cause I pray that when we do meet that it's gonna be a long time from now. I'm hoping it's a long time from now. Um, but, but I feel like it still gives me the hope that he is still a part of my day-to-day life, that I can still connect with him that- Yeah.
As we talked about, that, that, that energy can still be around us, and we can still think of them and connect with them in the ways that, you know, are meaningful to us.
Emily: Yes. Perfect. So will you do another album about grief and loss- Mm-hmm ... or is that gonna be down the road at some point?
Victoria: We'll see.
We'll see how, how things take shape. Like, I, I think creating this, uh, was just so, inspiring 'cause I had never done a project that was so vulnerable and was so, um, like, self-produced. Like, this, this is all me. Like, this is me with my guitar. These are me with my production [00:22:00] softwares. This is me playing the keys.
Um, I had great friends of both of ours, uh, help out with the mixing and the mastering. So for me, it was, uh, just such a beautiful experience to take everything that I've learned from him musically and, and music production-wise and put that into this project, that who knows what, what it looks like in the future with future projects.
But this, this has definitely, like, set a new, a new tone for me, um, which is, yeah, which is really beautiful.
Emily: Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I know people will be asking you to do more, I'm sure, in the future, um, because of how, how amazing this is. Um, so I'll put all your links that you sent in the show notes, but just tell for people who may not be watching or accessing it, like, what is the best way to find you, your music- Mm-hmm
or to just kind of get in touch with you and follow your journey?
Victoria: Absolutely. Yeah. So, uh, Instagram, I'm probably most active on Instagram. Um, so on Instagram I am @sheofficial, which is S-H-3 [00:23:00] official. Um, She is my artist name, uh, stands for sound healing, and three is my favorite number. So I, I release music under She.
Um, and it can be found on an- any platform that you stream music, so if you look up SH-3, I should be, I should pop up.
Emily: Perfect. Well, thank you so much again, Victoria, for coming and sharing your story and sharing your beautiful music with the world. I know, I know it has to be impacting people as they hear it, just like it did for me.
Victoria: Thank you so much for having me. This has just been such a joy to, to connect and then to talk. Yes.
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