BW 053 - Launching a Dating App & Creating a Community for Widows and Widowers in Living Out Their Chapter Two - with Nicky Wake

industry interview widow interview Oct 24, 2023

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The Transcript is below.


Well if you are ready to date again, or maybe you're not sure, but you've been scoping out the dating apps and it's looking pretty abysmal. I have an amazing guest here for you. I have Nicky Wake, who is the founder of the Chapter 2 Dating App. Primarily based right now out of the UK, who's going to come on the show today.

She's going to share her story as a widow, her reason for founding this widow and a widower's only based dating app. And what to her was the reason she wanted to create this to be something different than the other dating apps that are out there. She also has a lot of great resources to share with you.


You can find Nicky on:

Email: [email protected]





For free resources and to get on the Brave Widow email list to stay up to date on what is happening within the community go to Brave Widow Resources.



The Brave Widow Community is a place where you can connect with other widows, find hope and healing, and begin to dream again for the future.  Learn more at  


Hey guys, I’m Emily Jones


I was widowed at age 37, one month shy of our 20 year wedding anniversary.  Nathan and I have four beautiful children together.  My world was turned completely upside down when I lost him.  With faith, community, and wisdom from others, I’ve been able to find hope, joy, and dream again for the future.  I want to help others do the same, too!



Twitter | @brave_widow

Instagram | @brave_widow

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YouTube | @bravewidow


Emily Jones: [00:00:00] Hey, hey, welcome to episode number 53 of the brave widow show. Well. If you are ready to date again, or maybe you're not sure, but you've been scoping out the dating apps and it's looking pretty abysmal. Well, I have an amazing guest here for you. I have Nicky Wake, who is the founder of the Chapter 2 Dating App. Primarily based right now out of the UK, who's going to come on the show today.

Emily Jones: She's going to share her story as a widow. She's going to share her reason for founding this widow and a widower's only based dating app. And what to her was the reason she wanted to create this to be something different than the other dating apps that are out there. She also has a lot of great resources to share with you.

Emily Jones: So I'm super excited to jump into that. I also want to remind you before I introduce you to Nikki that if you want to be aware of upcoming live [00:01:00] events, if you want to know the latest and greatest of what's going on in the Brave Widow community, you need to be on the email list. And the way you get on there...

Emily Jones: Is by going to brave widow. com slash free F R E E. I have free resources out there for you. I have some checklists, workbooks, some videos, things that are meant to help you and to help encourage and inspire you. And you can. Get those items absolutely for free, get on the email list and hear about all of the amazing live events that we have upcoming.

Emily Jones: We usually have one about once a month and we also have in December a winter's solstice for widows event. This is something we started last year in December. It's usually on the 21st. We laugh, we cry, we play games, we give away prizes. We have music, we have snacks. We do all kinds of stuff virtually on zoom and cameras are totally optional.

Emily Jones: You're welcome to wear comfy clothes, [00:02:00] PJs. Your Santa hat, whatever, whatever feels right to you. So stay updated on when these free live events are going to be happening by joining the email list at BraveWidow. com slash free. All right, let me introduce you here to Nicky. I'm so excited to have her here. I started following actually chapter two dating on Twitter, which is now X and really watching their progress as they launched.

Emily Jones: Last fall and just kind of seeing how the overall reaction was to that, which has been really well received and just exciting to watch as they launched something new. So Nicky, if Nicky Wake is 52 years old, she's a widow and lost her beloved Andy to COVID in 2020 after a long illness. She is an entrepreneur and launched chapter two, dating. app, a dating and community app exclusively for widows and widowers who are ready for a committed [00:03:00] relationship and widow, widowsfire. co. uk, a casual dating site for people not yet ready for a committed relationship. The apps are less than 12 months old, but already have nearly 5, 000 members across the UK, and they are launching in the U. S. and Australia in the next few months, which is amazing. You can find her on all sorts of different social media apps.

Emily Jones: And we will include all of her links in the show notes on where you can find her and stay updated on when the launch is going to happen, likely in a place near you.

Emily Jones: Hey, Hey, welcome to another episode of the brave widow show today. I have a very special guest, Nicky Wake Nicky. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you for agreeing to come today.

Nicky Wake: Thank you. And we're delighted to be here. So thank you for having us.

Emily Jones: [00:04:00] Absolutely. So Nicky I would love for you to share with the audience who you are, what you do, and then we can dive in some to your story.

Nicky Wake: Absolutely. So, I'm Nicky Wake based in the UK, but uh, as discussed, love a bit of travel all over. I am a widow. I sadly lost my darling, beautiful late husband. And in 2020, after a very long illness, and I'll tell you more about that later. And, and started my journey as a widow and, uh, embraced.

Nicky Wake: My new identity as a widow and as inevitably, I mean, I was only 49 when I lost him and inevitably that is too young to stop any kind of future plans and I kind of needed to know that I had a future and I was too young to be alone for the rest of my life. And so I, I, I actually went on the [00:05:00] dating apps, and I realized very quickly that it's like the Wild West out there on Tinder and Bumble and Hinge, and I did my market research, and I, I then decided there had to be a better way, so I launched and I set up chapter two dating dot app, which is a uk based app, but we are looking to launch In the us in the next couple of months just sorting some investment out and then As a result of that and listening to the talk on our forums because we're much more than a dating app We are a community.

Nicky Wake: We're a community of brave and beautiful widows who who kind of come together to, to, to share experiences. And, and part of that is the forums that we have. And one of the most hotly contested topics on those forums was something called widow's fire, which I'm not sure if you've covered up before, but uh, a phenomenon that when you're, when you're [00:06:00] grieving.

Nicky Wake: You ache for physical comfort. And, uh, so we started widowsfire. co. uk So, chapter2dating. at is for people who are ready for the next significant relationship. People who are ready to find that next chapter to, to move forward in a committed relationship. And widowers are. And I know I've had some disastrous relationships because I wasn't in the right place to do that.

Nicky Wake: When actually all I wanted was a hug. And and, and Widow's Fire obviously it does more than a hug sometimes, but I don't get involved. But, uh, but yeah, it's, uh, it, it, it's a no strings. fun and flirty experience for people who aren't ready yet for a committed relationship. So, uh, chapter two dating app launched November last year, and [00:07:00] Widows Fire has only been around three months.

Nicky Wake: And, and we've had an incredible response from both communities for it. I, I genuinely feel We filled a gap. I actually met Andy, my late husband, on DatingDirect. com back in the day when people didn't even admit that they met online. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it was a taboo thing, yeah. Yeah, whereas now, you actually meet someone in a bar, that's unusual.

Nicky Wake: So, so, so yeah, it was an absolute taboo. And and, and, uh, these days it's much more mainstream, obviously. So I, I knew it could work. I just found my personal experience of mainstream dating apps. barbaric. I mean, it's full of, and you can bleep this bit out if you want, dick pics and ghosting and, all of that kind of thing.

Nicky Wake: And and, and sometimes as widows, we're incredibly vulnerable and it's, it's, it's a very harsh world. To be going back [00:08:00] into when none of us would have chosen this, I would, uh, I, Andy was my soulmate. He was, the John to my Yoko. He was, he, he was a wonderful creature and a human being and I miss him every second of every day.

Nicky Wake: And, and I would never have chosen this life. And, there are times when I want to scream with frustration at, I didn't choose this. I wasn't. I, I thought I was done with dating, I thought I was, that was, that world was gone. a Batman man, he was amazing, brilliant father, and I was going to spend the rest of my life with him.

Nicky Wake: We were going to grow old disgracefully, we were going to go on round the world cruises, we were, and all of that was, was taken from me. So then all of a sudden when you find yourself sitting in a local pub waiting to meet someone who turns out to be a disaster. It's, it's, it's, it's not a good place to be.

Nicky Wake: So, so yeah, ironically I created the app [00:09:00] out of necessity because I couldn't find what I wanted online. And the minute I created the apps, I thought, do you know what? I don't feel like I can use them. Because it feels wrong to be charging other people for a service if I've been creaming up the best of the men.

Nicky Wake: So I'm back on Bumble, Hinge, Tinder, all of the, above. So yeah, if there's any hot widowers looking, you can find me there. But I mean, I do have profiles on the sites, obviously. But I, I kind of, it feels weird to be using them as, as the owner, if that makes sense.

Emily Jones: Yeah, and I love how you, as widows, we're often overwhelmed or we, uh, sometimes it's hard in the beginning, just.

Emily Jones: To live and feel like you're surviving, but over time you saw that there was a need out there and not only that, but you found a way to help fill that need and close the gap. And I, I've not been on Tinder. I've been on some of the other [00:10:00] dating apps and use them and have had, my own experience, but I'm curious what you feel like.

Emily Jones: So I've not tried chapter two, but when you created the app, what was your vision of How this experience is meant to be different than some of the other things that, uh, you, you've seen out there.

Nicky Wake: Yeah, absolutely. So, for me, chapter two is a safe ring fence space for widows and widowers. So to be a member of chapter two.

Nicky Wake: You have to prove your widowed status. So you can do that in a couple of ways. You can send me in a copy of a death certificate. You can send me a link to a memorialized Facebook page. But I know that some people, so for instance, I haven't memorialized Andy's Facebook page because I can't. I can't do it.

Nicky Wake: I can't either. It sort of feels so final and and I'm not ready for that finality of that. And, and, I still post stuff and tag him in quite often. Uh, so, so, so [00:11:00] yeah, you can send a link to a Memorialised Facebook page. You can send a link to an obituary or a GoFundMe page or, so some sort of and I, I, I personally vet every member who comes on board.

Nicky Wake: So. Every day I log on and I look and if there's anyone that I'm not happy with then I'll send them a follow up direct email to say can you provide a bit more evidence because I, I'm passionate about protecting our widows and widowers they're a really vulnerable audience and a lot of them our typical audience is kind of 45 plus.

Nicky Wake: A lot of them have never online dated. A lot of them aren't very computer savvy. I spent my life as an IT help desk and I kind of, have you tried turning it on and off again? So, uh, yeah, it's, uh, we need to handhold them through that process. And actually, we have a duty of care to them.

Nicky Wake: And I want to make sure that, I can't protect them from every interaction. People are [00:12:00] people, aren't they? But I want to keep them as safe as we possibly can do. And as I said, we're much more than just an app. We're a community. So there are forums, there are blog posts, there are uh, advice and resources.

Nicky Wake: We signpost to charities all the time. There's a brilliant charity called Widowed and Young in the UK that saved my sanity when my world fell apart. They were there to help me pick up the pieces and, and, they have a million different interest Facebook groups and things like that. So, I'm very passionate about being much more than a dating site, but actually being a community, building a community.

Nicky Wake: We do face to face events in the UK, so we've got our next one in London on the 12th of October. Uh, anyone who wants to fly in, please do. And, uh, and we make those free to everybody. So, so that we try not to make membership costs a barrier to, to entry to any of our events. But I find, [00:13:00] I find great joy and solace in creating Chapter 2 and Widow's Fire.

Nicky Wake: Because the whole... point of it for me is it's, it is my chapter two. So it's my reason for being, it's my reason for getting out of bed in the morning. And it's, it's given me a new sense of hope and purpose. And if I can help some other people find some joy, that helps me make sense of my loss. It's like, this is what I was put on the earth to do, was this.

Nicky Wake: And it's a really, I'm hugely passionate about it, as you can probably tell, but it's a. It's, it's a real passion project. And I think Andy would find it absolutely hysterical that I've managed to create a business out of grief. So he'd be like, he always knew I was an entrepreneur. So my day job, when I'm not doing this.

Nicky Wake: I run an events company. We run big award shows all around the world. So, yeah, [00:14:00] I think he was a wonderful stay at home dad. And and I went out and did all the business. And yeah, I think he'd find it. Very, very funny. But, uh, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's given me a reason to be again.

Nicky Wake: And we all know those depths of despair and grief that you go through. And it is a roller coaster, isn't it? But there is, I think we all deserve a chapter two. We do, and, and, and that can be many things. It doesn't have to just be a relationship. It can be friendship. I've, I've created some incredible friendships.

Nicky Wake: Through the widowed community. Three of my investors, actually four, four of my investors now, are widows. So they're all people who have met me through the widowed community and have chosen to invest in the business because they see the need and the belief. And I had a investors dinner last week and and they're thrilled with, with the progress of the app.

Nicky Wake: [00:15:00] So yeah, we're you know, we're We're a little minnow in comparison to Tinder or something like that, but I think we're serving a real purpose. And the future of dating apps is all about the niche, and we're definitely all about the niche. So, yeah. I mean, it's a club none of us want to be part of, isn't it?

Nicky Wake: But we're here, so we may as well make the most of it and be in for the ride. And hopefully, we already know of I think about five couples who've got together through the app. Which is lovely. So yeah, I can't wait for my first chapter two wedding. Do you know what I mean? I look very good in a peach ball gown if needed.

Nicky Wake: Yeah, and there may be a

Emily Jones: chapter

Nicky Wake: two baby. Well, yes, maybe, indeed. There won't be one happening here, I can assure you. I'm done with that parenting thing. I've got one. That's enough. I'm in awe of anyone who's got more than one, actually. But but yeah, so, uh, yeah, it's it's been a real adventure embarking in something that, so I'm [00:16:00] used to running businesses and doing business, but, but doing something that you're fundamentally so passionate about, which is about creating hope and creating joy.

Nicky Wake: And, and we all deserve that second chapter. And I don't think any of our late partners would want us not to have that. I get ironically me and my late husband we went to visit a very good friend of ours who's a widow in Australia a few months, a few months before he fell ill. And and she'd actually started dating again and dating uh, uh, a friend of her late husband's.

Nicky Wake: And, uh, she told us when we were there, oh, I'm dating again. I was like, brilliant, that's so good. And that made me and Andy have the conversation of if anything ever happens to me. I want you to move on. I want you to move forward. We don't move on, we move forward, don't we, Widows? But, it's and so we actually had that conversation.

Nicky Wake: But I think there's so many couples who might [00:17:00] not have had that conversation and feel all of the complexities of emotions. that are around dating again. But I think I genuinely believe that our late partners wouldn't want us to be alone and would recognize that we were young and that there is still time and there's still hope.

Nicky Wake: Although saying that, we've got a whole range of members from the ages of 30, which is heartbreaking. Every time I see someone applied to be a member and I look at their date of birth and think, really? That's just utterly heartbreaking. But then we've also got like a 90 year old widow who's based in the Midlands, who's fabulous fun and has come on a couple of the events and, we've all got very drunk together and had a great time.

Nicky Wake: And so, it's a real, it's a real spectrum of widows that, that we're representing and that we're, we're helping, I hope. But yeah, nothing but positive feedback [00:18:00] from the community, which is, which is really rather lovely.

Emily Jones: Yeah, it really is. And I love that you tied in your passion and your purpose into part of your healing journey and part of your ability to move forward and be excited about things in the future again.

Emily Jones: Like that seemed like it took a long time for me was to reconcile. How can I ever be excited and happy about something without this cloud of sadness and missing Nathan? All of that coming in, when you talk about having a purpose and giving back and filling a need and just something you're really passionate about that does something special for you.

Emily Jones: And that I think helps take away some of that longing and just feeling like. Life is pointless. It's hopeless. There's no, like, why should I even move forward? And I think it's interesting with, with COVID we've really seen kind of an uptick in [00:19:00] younger widows and certainly people that are clamoring for dating apps specific to widows.

Emily Jones: And so I always tell people here in the States like, well, not yet, but I know there's one coming and,

Nicky Wake: uh, Yeah, we're probably about three months off. Launch, but I know the demands there. So we've got a holding page and people can sign up. Uh, to the holding page and Uh, we're collecting data and then obviously we'll we will give everybody who pre signs up pre launch two months free premium access And which enables you to like and message unlimited, et cetera.

Nicky Wake: But yeah, the demand's there. I, I get emails on an almost daily basis. And we go, when are you coming? Like I had one earlier from, are you coming to Canada? It's like, let me get to America first and then I'll do Canada. So, so yeah, it is, it is definitely coming. And we're very excited about bringing it stateside.

Nicky Wake: I love the States. So it gives me a perfect excuse to, to come over regularly and do events and things. [00:20:00] And, we'll roll the same model that we do here with three events across various states. We're probably going to launch in, in one state first, maybe Florida and then expand from there because obviously the big problem is, well, not it's a big problem, but it's geography, isn't it?

Nicky Wake: In the, in the U. S. is, In the UK, you can date long distance, but in the US, that just doesn't really work. So, so yeah, we're, we're, we're on with it definitely, and we're hoping to launch Australia later into next year as well. So, uh, and then rolling out across English territories, but, but certainly the the response in the UK has been phenomenal.

Nicky Wake: We've had incredible amounts of press and PR. The media seemed to love the story and my story in particular so I lost, uh, Andy, my husband, he, he fell ill actually in 2017, and he had a heart attack, which resulted in a catastrophic brain injury. Who knew that you could get a brain injury from a heart attack, I certainly [00:21:00] didn't so yeah, I can do CPR, but I'm not very good at it apparently so yeah, he was without full oxygen to his brain for 40 minutes.

Nicky Wake: And his consultant came to me when I was in my ICU bedside vigil that I know many of your, your listeners will have, will have been through. And, and he said to me, the consultant said to me your story does not have a happy ending. You need to know that when we bring him round, He's going to be severely brain damaged, and he was, and it was utterly heartbreaking.

Nicky Wake: So we threw everything at it. We threw rehab, we threw private care, we threw absolutely everything at it. But it was never. He was, my beautiful, intelligent, renaissance, fabulous, artistic, intelligent, gorgeous husband was a shadow of his former self and, and, and massively, massively brain [00:22:00] damaged.

Nicky Wake: He didn't know who he was, for which I'm grateful, because actually if he did know, it would have been utterly heartbreaking. He didn't know who I was. He didn't know who his son was. And we went into this horrible phase of limbo, of anticipatory grief, if that makes sense. For kind of three years, where I was, he was, he was taken into a nursing home 24 7 care, because he needed that.

Nicky Wake: He was... He couldn't walk and talk, was incontinent, it was awful. And I went every week and was utterly heartbroken. And I had to take the very, very difficult decision not to take my son to see him, because my son was nine years old at the time. And as a 49 year old woman, I found it heartbreaking.

Nicky Wake: So, for a nine year old, I wanted his memories of his daddy to be positive, and I knew that it was never going to improve.[00:23:00] And then, uh, COVID happened, obviously, 2020, and the minute COVID hit the headlines, I kind of thought, this is the beginning of our end. And because I knew that he'd been wrestling with infections in the nursing home as it was, but the minute the COVID entered that nursing home, it would, and sure enough, April 17th, 2020.

Nicky Wake: We finally lost him. And, uh, I mean, I, I genuinely thought I was going to be ready for it because I thought I've had three years of grief anticipated grief, but grief of the love of my life that I've lost. There isn't him anymore. But actually anticipated grief doesn't fast track you on the grief circle.

Nicky Wake: Apparently , there's no, there's no guest list for, for, for mourning. Yeah, I kind of imagined I'd be [00:24:00] much further down the line and actually I'd be relieved, but it, it absolutely floored me when I finally lost him. And actually lockdown, I'm probably the only person who enjoyed lockdown because I could just hunker down with my, my son and, and not leave the house.

Nicky Wake: And uh, spend that time with him coping with, with that loss. And I know that obviously a lot of other people lost people to COVID. Uh, but, but yeah, it, I thought it'd be a relief, but it wasn't. It never is, isn't it? You, you think you've got, you've wrapped your head around something and, and you really haven't.

Nicky Wake: So, Well,

Emily Jones: three, three years is a really long time to love someone and care for them and feel probably helpless. Yeah. And just, yeah, just the complete unknown of what would happen. And my husband [00:25:00] did have COVID and double pneumonia and he was on a ventilator and in a coma. And I remember they thought he had had 3 different heart attacks because they'd had to restart his heart so many times.

Emily Jones: And I remember driving to the hospital thinking and praying and just saying, if he's going to be a vegetable, if he's, not going to be able to function like that would be a nightmare for him. Some things are worse than death and, I'm like, if this is, if this, like you said, if this story does not have a happy ending, I just, just have it over and done.

Emily Jones: Like I can't do this for months or, even years. And I, I have a friend that she was in my situation for months. And then you were in that situation for years of just. Not knowing, being unsure, like that, that had to take a real emotional toll on you and your

Nicky Wake: family. It, it, it did. It was utter limbo.

Nicky Wake: And I was trying to run my events business as a solo parent. And, and so Andy was the world's best dad. He was a stay at [00:26:00] home dad. So he used to, he started the business with me, but then I had to sack him because he just wasn't very ambitious. So, uh, I suggested that he stay home and write a novel which he did, or a novel that never got finished, which is, which is actually quite sad.

Nicky Wake: And, and, funnily enough, someone said to me, oh, you should read it and try and finish it. And I was like, and I read it and I thought, I'm not finishing that, it's so rude, I can't tell you. So, So, uh, yeah. And so he stayed home and he did every school run. He cooked every meal. He and I was flying around the world delivering award shows in Vegas, in Sydney, and I definitely had the better end of that particular stick, I'll be honest.

Nicky Wake: And so I, I wasn't a naturally maternal person and I had to work at that stuff and learn how to be a mom and, and stuff. So when Andy got Ill, I, I, I didn't even know how to cook. I didn't, I was a disaster when [00:27:00] it came to all of that kind of home making ability that I know loads of women excel at, but I'm not all of them at all.

Nicky Wake: And so I had to learn kind of how to parent and how to parent a grieving child while running a business and then head hurtling into COVID, which was obviously lots of fun running events business in COVID, not. So, uh, yeah, it's, uh, yeah, it's been a heck of a journey. I'm going to be honest, but but, our grief doesn't define us.

Nicky Wake: But it changes us fundamentally forever. Am I a, a deeper person? Yes. Do I view life in a totally different way? Absolutely. I mean, it's funny. I go to, obviously, lots of widow meetups. And before you go to a widow meetup, you think it's going to be full of people in the corner crying into their gin.

Nicky Wake: Uh, woe is me, wearing black. I mean, I do wear black, but that's another story. But, in actual fact, widows [00:28:00] know to seize life by the horns and live every second because we know how quickly It can change, and it does. And, uh, in a heartbeat, literally in a heartbeat, everything can change.

Nicky Wake: And, uh, I think, I think widows are fabulous fun, ironically, to be around. Because, until you've been on a dance floor with 90 widows getting down to a dodgy disco tune at some widow AGM that I go to. You haven't lived. And I love the, I don't know if you know this, but the collective term for widows is an avalanche of widows, which is just gorgeous as a, as a kind of, that sums up beautifully what we are, but I think together we are, we are awesome.

Nicky Wake: And we're, a force to be reckoned with, I would say yeah. Yeah.

Emily Jones: Most [00:29:00] definitely. And look at you in the app world, in the dating world, just creating something beautiful out of, uh, a tragic and terrible situation.

Nicky Wake: Okay. I mean, I am a very much a glass half full kind of girl. I do in fact, I'm speaking, uh, on Thursday at a dating industry conference.

Nicky Wake: And, and, and, the, the conference talk is, when life gives you lemons, make a gin and tonic. Because you have to seize the joy in every moment that you can. But again, I think that comes back to understanding how fragile life can be. And Yeah, I think, I would never have chosen this, you would never have chosen this, right?

Nicky Wake: But we are where we are, and so, likewise with the pocket, you're creating something really positive out of a really rubbish situation, and that's all we can do in life, isn't it? Because, fate herself is a [00:30:00] very, very unfair hand, but there's no point, you

Nicky Wake: Embrace life and, and, and try and navigate a way forward. It's not easy. It's not. And I know that. And I, I talk to widows and widowers all the time. But but hopefully, I think there's a, an amazing strength in the widow community that that I love. And I never knew that was there, and I think that's one of the clever things about the apps, is the names, so chapter two, everyone who's a widow knows what chapter two means.

Nicky Wake: No one outside the widow world, we call them muggles quite here in the UK, which is a Harry Potter reference. No one understands what chapter two means until you're in that world. So it kind of needs no explanation. Likewise, widow's fire, if you're on the ruder end of widowhood. But you know what that means.

Nicky Wake: And, and so, it's, uh, yeah, I think, I think there's an unspoken language. And I [00:31:00] think widows and widowers are uniquely placed. to understand each other. So if you come into my house, I, the house is full of photographs of Andy. My heart is full of memories. Every day a Facebook post memory pops up.

Nicky Wake: And that takes a very, that's a lot for someone who doesn't understand widowhood to deal with, I don't think, I, I, I dated a divorced guy for a while. And, and I mentioned something about Andy and grieving and he said, Are you still grieving? It's like, of course, I will grieve for the rest of my life.

Nicky Wake: Like Andy was my soulmate and I lost him. And I don't think anyone who goes through divorce or separation or anything else understands. what that feels like. And I, and so I think we're uniquely placed to [00:32:00] understand each other. And I do think that if I met a widower I'd be absolutely cool with them having photos all over the house and talking about, and we would recognize the key dates and the important dates in their lives and acknowledge that and be part of that process.

Nicky Wake: And, and that's absolutely what I want to do. for my chapter tours that to provide them with a community of people. We call it, it's built by widows for widows and widowers. And it's a community of people who get it, who understand. So you don't have to explain. Like the worst thing I find in the world is when I go on a bumble day or a tinder day or a hinge day.

Nicky Wake: And when can you say you're a widow?

Nicky Wake: Because It's not, yeah, so, so it's kind of understanding when to drop the W bomb, if you like [00:33:00] and whereas on chapter two, everybody on there is a widow or a widower. So you're, you're, and I find that widows and widowers Like, we go from zero to ten in about two minutes because we understand so much about each other and what we've been through and what that journey's been like.

Nicky Wake: So that, you don't, you don't sweat the small stuff. You don't do the small talk, you're straight into the jugular. Because we know each other, and we know, it's a badge no one wants, but hey, at least we understand each other, don't we? And I think that's, every time I go to a Widowed and Young meet up, and you meet new people who've never been to a meet up before, and I'm always really sensitive about looking after them, and trying to, ease them into the whole world.

Nicky Wake: And, uh, and, and you do that, how long have you been a member of WAY, Widowed and Young? And, uh, and then that's shorthand for, when did it happen? Do you know what I mean? And, and, and, and there's a, there's a kind of, [00:34:00] yeah, a unique understanding. And I think, actually, we should embrace that uniqueness, and, and almost celebrate where we are now, and, and how much progress we're all making, in different, at different speeds, at different times, I meet a lot of people who go, I'm not ready today. Well, that's absolutely fine. And, we respect that and you can have free access to the forums and the communities and the resources. And if you are ready, we're here when you want to date, but until then, just come to a meet up and, and make some new friends.

Nicky Wake: And so our last, uh, meet up in Birmingham, uh, a couple of, uh, widowed moms met and they've all hung out with their kids and, and all of that is part of. World, which is, which is lovely and something I'm quite proud of already.

Emily Jones: Yeah. And, and you should be. I think it's an amazing community that you are building and have built for widows and widowers and talking about [00:35:00] being ready to date or being ready to.

Emily Jones: Be in another significant relationship. What, what do you tell people when they're trying to figure out like, Oh, I think I'm ready. I'm not sure if I'm not ready. You have any tips or any thoughts on how to tell if you're ready to date

Nicky Wake: again? Yeah, absolutely. Sorry, let me put a light on. It's all gone a bit dark.

Nicky Wake: Yeah, absolutely. So, on our blog, there are numerous articles about and also in our resources section at the bottom, numerous articles that I've written about how to know when you're ready to date, how to write the right profile, because a lot of these people will never have written a profile or anything of that nature.

Nicky Wake: And actually the profiles on chapter two are lovely. So I often look through them, obviously, because I vet them when they come in. And they're much more open and full than, if you go on Tinder, it's full of men holding a photo of a fish and not a lot else really, isn't [00:36:00] it? Whereas this is people talk about the late partner, how long they've been widowed.

Nicky Wake: Their family, their history, their, and so they're much more detailed and genuine which is something I'm very proud of actually. So yeah, so there's a whole post about how to write the right profile and what to do as a first date because obviously if you've not dated for a long time it's a whole different world and it's always like just go for a coffee, right, don't commit to dinner, don't, I know from experience having had some of the longest dinners on my life.

Nicky Wake: It, it, it's just meet for coffee, go for a dog walk, whatever, the, we do. Uh, yeah, so we, we, we do give lots of hints and tips. I do a blog post every week about something. So I wrote one about, I don't know if you've seen it, uh, a film called Love Again. I haven't seen it. Oh, it's on Netflix.

Nicky Wake: You so need to watch it. It's fabulous. It's about a young widow who texts her late husband all the time, but his number gets reassigned. [00:37:00] I, honestly, you need the tissues because I tell you, I was literally snot crying, just a mess by about four minutes in. So she texts her late husband's number all the time and they've reassigned the number to another guy.

Nicky Wake: So he's getting all the texts but doesn't know what to do or what to say. And she says I'm going to the opera in a yellow dress. So he turns up at the opera and sees her and, yeah, well, anyway, I won't, no spoilers here. It's gorgeous. And so like this week I wrote a blog post about having watched that and what I'd taken from it and et cetera.

Nicky Wake: So, so yeah, I mean, I think our resources element is, is kind of quite unique to us as the dating app, actually. But yeah obviously safe dating is really important to us. So there's a whole List of advice about don't show your number till you're comfortable yeah, absolutely move conversation to whatsapp if you want But [00:38:00] make sure that you're doing it in a safe way always meet in public always tell someone where you're going You know never accept a lift, etc, etc because a lot of our people are A widowers are out of practice in this world, and the world has moved on considerably from when they last dated.

Nicky Wake: And, and so we have that duty of care, if you like, to, uh, to look after them. And, and then we do obviously things like the meetups and the free events and all of those elements that hopefully create a a nice safe environment for people to dip their toe back in the water in this world because I know how scary it is and how scary it can be.

Nicky Wake: And, and, and what we want to do is create. The safest environment we can to look after our community.

Emily Jones: I love that. Well, Nikki, thank you for coming on today. Tell people, we'll put links to everything in the [00:39:00] show notes, but tell people where they can find you, if they're in the States and they want to know when the launch is going to be, how they sign up, where should they go?

Nicky Wake: Yeah, no problem at all. Let me just get my, uh, URLs up. So, if you're in the UK, it's chapter2dating. app, and obviously once you share it, I'll share it with my UK network, so hopefully we can uh, get you some more listeners, which would be good as well, wouldn't it? And then if you're in the US

Nicky Wake: Uh, chapter two us. One second.

Nicky Wake: Uh, so Widows Fire is uk, uh, widows uk. Chapter two is the US site, so if you've register on there, you'll auto automatically be put on our US mailing list, so you'll get all the notifications as and when we're going live, and anyone who signs up now gets two months free. As soon as we launch in that particular state.

Nicky Wake: So, [00:40:00] free premium access, which means all functionality. So, uh, yeah, and obviously you can log up. and, and register on the site just to get newsletters, etc. So, yeah, we'd love to welcome you. You can follow me I'm on X as it's called now, not Twitter, must get used to that at, at Nikki Wake, N I C K Y W A K E and you could also follow Chapter Two and, uh, Widow's Fire UK on X, and we've also got Facebook And we post daily lots of lovely memes and, uh, a bit of kind of positive inspirational boost for us all on a daily basis.

Nicky Wake: And then we have a series of live events. So, uh, so sign up and hopefully we can, I think it's really important to have a face to face element, I think it's, it's. Lovely to be online, and obviously the world is online and connected now, but I think sometimes there's nothing better than just meeting a bunch of widows and widowers [00:41:00] in a, in a room and, and having a good chat.

Emily Jones: Yeah, totally agree, and Don't forget if there's any hot widowers in the UK area,

Emily Jones: make sure you connect with her there. So thank you again so much for coming. Uh, appreciate everything. Thank you

Nicky Wake: for having us. Really

Emily Jones: appreciate it. All right. Bye.

Emily Jones: Hey guys. Thank you so much for listening to the Brave Widow Podcast. I would love to help you take your next step, whether that's healing your heart, finding hope, or achieving your dreams for the future.

Emily Jones: Do you need a safe space to connect with other like-minded widows? Do you wish you had how-tos for getting through the next steps in your journey, organizing your life or moving through grief? What about live calls where you get answers to your burning questions? [00:42:00] The Brave Widow Membership Community is just what you need.

Emily Jones: Inside you'll find courses to help guide you, a community of other widows to connect with, live coaching and q and a calls, and small group coaching where you can work on what matters most to you. Learn how to heal your heart, find hope, reclaim joy, and dream again for the future. It is possible. Head on over to brave to learn more.

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